If I make a reply this long… It needs to really be a whole new post.. So here we go, emdashwood.
If you are not emdashwood, but want to know what the hell all this is about, this discussion started back in my post, My Humiliating Dream, in the comments section. Here is the last thing emdashwood wrote (followed by my reply, of course).
They definitely don’t have to be related. I do think, however, if they’re someone you’re interested in as relationship material, then the sexual attraction is there. Really that’s the first step… If that buzzer doesn’t go off, then you never even make it out of the friend zone or into a flirtation stage. Women can be hesitant to be too aggressive or animalistic (as you put it) right off the bat, though… we’ve been trained over the years that *good* men might judge us poorly if we’re too overt. So, if you’re still in the “potential relationship material” category, you may not see that “animalistic” side for a while. On the other hand, if you’re in the “definitely not relationship material” category, then you move directly into the “would we have fun in the sack” category, at which point all bets are off and our inner porn star comes alive
Also, I know it’s a concern for me personally, that by opening up that more overtly sexual side of myself, I’m possibly stunting the development of an emotional connection… For example, a guy I’ve been seeing recently… We crossed that line fairly early… oral on a first date, the whole shabang on the second date. We’re soooo compatible in this area that neither one of us wants to spend much time outside the bedroom… We see each other roughly once a week (his availability is limited as he has kids) and 90% of our time together is spent between the sheets. I mean… after a week’s worth of anticipation, there’s really no holding back when we see each other. But I actually like this guy as relationship material, and I worry sometimes that because I gave into those desires so quickly, other areas of our relationship have suffered due to lack of attention!
As for the housewives… I would say it could be either case… Personally, I spent 8 years in a marriage where I was very overt (it’s in my DNA, I can’t help myself!)… but my ex was disinterested, at best, and certainly didn’t give me the pleasure I was desperately in need of. I never ventured outside the marriage, though… just became very adept at pleasing myself. On the other hand, I know there are women who never break through that fear of “*good* men might judge us poorly” and as a result probably have desires that are never expressed and end up going unfulfilled with their partner.
(To which I reply…)
I totally see that, too. I want both, though. I don’t think, just because we wanna date someone we should limit ourselves sexually with that person. I honestly feel we should express that side of ourselves more.
It’s unfortunate that society has somehow convinced us that there should be a separation between your sexual side and that emotional connection side of things.
The thing about the dream, I can tap into that sexual side in women very quickly. That’s probably what pissed me off about the dream, is that there was the implication that I wasn’t and couldn’t do it and these average guys could. But not in a envy or jealously sense, it just made me evaluate my OWN skills a little.
But back to what you were saying, I kinda feel it’s really unfortunate that people seem to make that separation between sexuality and connection. To me, sexuality IS connection and just because a girl likes me, does not mean she should automatically disconnect herself from wanting to get sexual with me quickly.
My last real girlfriend was a Doctor of Veterinary medicine. She was a intelligent, well spoken, super attractive, clean language, down to earth woman and that’s what I liked about her. She was reading a book when I met her. I believe it was angels and demons.
But we went out on our first date and we got fucking hot and steamy and made out right out in the open, pda style and went back to my house all hot and fucking horny and the ONLY reason we didn’t go all the way from point A to point F the first date was because she was in the Red Zone.
That being said, we didn’t separate that part of ourselves from the first moment and that allowed things to bloom nicely and I don’t think that embracing that sexual side got in the way at all of us still having that cool relationship.
And then there’s the last girl I went on a couple dates with, who couldn’t combine the two. She liked me, I was sure of that, but was trying to cut me off from expressing myself sexually. She had some idea in her mind that because she genuinely liked me that it was time to put things on the slow track and be strange. She was sexually attracted to me, for sure. We had 2 good dates, but if I invited her in for a drink or whatever on those dates, she balked. But she was cool with making out in the driveway right outside my door.
But then after the second date I invited her out to come meet me and a friend. She came out of her way, across town, to come see me. I was excited to see her and naturally, when she got there decided to show my natural affection to her and I tried to kiss her. That was me being me, not contrived, not trying to get something from her. I figured we had already been there, we had already made out a few times, and so I figured a quick kiss was in order. Not like a full on make out session in the middle of the bar or anything (not that I’m against that), but I definitely wanted to reward her for coming out to see me, and to me, a kiss was the way to do that.
But she gave me the fucking cheek turn. I was like, “What was that?” I didn’t make a big deal out of it, but it kind of killed the vibe immediately. Her concern was something about what if she saw people she knew or something.
We ended up getting in a big discussion about it later walking her to her car and it ended up killing my attraction to her. I couldn’t tell if it was her not liking me; her not desiring me sexually but liking me; or her being afraid to embrace that sexual side of herself because she liked me too much as a person. Honestly, after 2 dates, that was just too much in the wrong direction and so I ended up texting her later something like, “I’m an amazing guy, a catch, and if you can’t see that after 2 dates I don’t know that I want to try and convince you. But I do have a crush on you…”
She didn’t text me back and I never tried calling or texting her again. But here’s the funny thing. 2 weeks later she did text me back, being flirty and fun and provocative in her texts to me. We had a big conversation and she hinted that she wanted to see me again..
But then check this out, when I bit the hint and made the offer she rejected it. At first I thought she was just playing around. Why on earth would a chick reach out to me, be flirty and fun and bait me into asking her out just to reject me? Who does that?
Maybe a low self esteem woman who needed to end the interaction on HER terms where she felt like she was the one doing the final rejection since, my text about “convincing” from earlier was a form of me rejecting her if she was gonna continue to be a stick in the mud.
Or my other theory was that she was still attracted to me but at the same time that part of her that was afraid of getting sexual with me was holding her back.
Either way, the text conversation ended up going south when I kept being playful, tried asking her out again a second time (just because I had a hard time believing she was actually serious about the first rejection) and she again said no.
I ended up, pretty much calling her on it telling her pretty much the same thing I just said above. She was either a girl VERY MUCH into games, or there was a part of her that liked me, made her reach out since I was not giving her attention, but yet, was too afraid to embrace that sexual side with me for whatever reason.
Basically, the point is, my BEST relationships got sexual very quckly. But there is a drawback to that, and that is, some women will get sexual with me very quickly and then that is that. We end up having sex and then I may never see them again, even if I want to. (Yes there are the women I have sex with quickly and then get bored with them or whatever but that’s not what this thread is about). But I can’t be someone I am not. I cannot change my nature for a woman, just to be in a relationship with her, and if I did I don’t think it would be a very satisfying relationship on either side if I did.
So to me, the perfect mix of sex and seduction and connection and fun are the recipe to the perfect relationship. If one of those parts are missing, then the rest, in my opinion, falls apart. It’s just too bad, like I said before, that society or whatever has screwed people up into thinking that a woman should withhold expressing her sexuality to someone she likes, because that person might not take her seriously. And that doesn’t mean that she needs to just throw her sexuality around carelessly with whoever, I mean, unless she wants to, but at the same time to withhold that spiritual essence that sexuality really is, in my opinion from someone you really, genuinely like is unfortunate in and of itself. There needs to be a balance…