From the “Other” Side – Could Pickup Arts Have Stopped Elliot Roger From His Rampage?

So the Internet buzz right now, related the the PUA community, is about that guy Elliot Roger.  A couple of places, mostly jaded women’s rights (or more like Men’s Hate) blogs are trying to connect the dots, saying Elliot Roger, who was a member of a website called, is also a PUA by default, so to speak.

So, I thought it was interesting some of the takes that has fueled the ever more man hating rage some of these women and men apologists seem to have.  Basically this is from skimming the comments section over at another blog:

Pickup artists argue that “Game” is the solution to Elliot Rodger-style rampages. Here’s why they’re wrong.

The blog is run by a self-loathing male, I think, who probably feels like the “White Knight” where if he talks about how men suck that women will flock to him and laud him as a hero and perhaps he can get the attention from them he has always lacked in the real world. It seems to work.  Jaded femmes by the Dozens flock to his blog like a dive bar filled with angry feminists.  I made one comment after a long day, and it stirred up the hornets nest, however, the next day when I tried to comment again, using many of the comments of those replying to mine, to point out the hypocracy of their thinking – well, as I figured, that post never made it through the magical “your comment is awaiting moderation” flag that seemed to pop up for me, while the she-girl man haters club got to post away freely.

Basically the attitude of the majority over there seems to be a “damned if you do and damned if you don’t” stance from the she-haters.  In other words, men, at least the ones that these females don’t automatically find attractive upon first glance and have a shot with, have no business talking to women.  Women just don’t need to be bothered by these “Morlocks” if you will.  They want to go on their happy lives, and not have to deal with undesirables trying to flirt with them.  It works like this.  If you are the 1% of men in the world that are attractive to these women, you are ok, just as long as they can also have their desires for you reciprocated.

However for the rest of men, they fall into a few different Blanket Categories:

1.  The Creeper – Men whom these women do not approve of, or cannot have their way with if the women find them attractive, are considered creepy.  If one tries to hit on one of these women, and things don’t work out, these men are creepy, they are harassing the women,they are borderline molesting them.  How dare these less than sexy men have desires for these women and try to make them known!!  One also falls into this category if he is unskilled in the dating world.  If he is not, by default, great with women off the bat, then he has no business trying to talk to them since he is a creepy misogynist if he does.

2.  The Wanna Be Rapist – Men who go about trying to improve their dating lives by studying or trying ANYTHING that can loosely be related to Pickup Arts in any way shape or form are neatly pigeonholed into a couple of categories.  A.  They hate women.  B.  They want to Rape Women.  So, anyone who is not automatically approved of from the she-hateists that tries to step up the ladder is also evil, misogynistic, and are a threat to women.  No man should ever try to become better at dating!!  They should just be happy with being a Creeper and NEVER talk to women!

3.  The Possible Mass Murderer – Well as you can see, since men are automatically creepy if women don’t approve of them, and they are serial rapists and they hate women if they try to improve themselves, then there is a very real possibility as we just witnessed that these troglodytes of the male species (99%) are very likely to go off on a killing spree.  This makes them even more of a threat – because God forbid they can’t Rape women, because then they will just turn around and start killing people.

Moral of the story?  Well Saturday Night Live summed it up very nicely in this mock advertisement about sexual harassment they did a few years back:

Be Handsome

Be Attractive

Don’t Be Unattractive

This is what that WHOLE comments section in that blog post boils down to.  Hypocrisy at it’s finest.  Women who only want to have to be hit on by men who they find desirable.  All the flag waving, rah-rahing, men bashing is shallow as can be.  It’s all about them wanting to have their cake and eat it to.

Then there’s Spin bullshit like this by some media sites where they try to say that PUAHATE is actually a pickup artist site in disguise:

Women-hating ‘Pick-Up-Artist’ groups laud the ‘virgin killer’ for his vile and murderous comments online

But let’s get real for a moment.  Was Elliot Roger a pick up artist?  Do pickup artists support him?

Let’s put it like this.  He was a “member” of  Pickup artists generally know that those who end up on puahate are those who failed at pickup.  Most of them probably tried and failed, so embittered and angry, they ended up there.  That is what the majority of the site’s posters were made up of.  There were a few guys on there claiming to have success with women, but as one guy so eloquently put it in another discussion about this we are having, “they would post their own method that was rehashed from common sense or other pick up method.  For example: they said I just approach until I find a girl who is receptive and then tease her and have a conversation with her.  And by the way fuck mystery method!”

However, as a whole puahate is regarded by pickup artists as the angry, embittered failure club.  Even more so, Elliot Roger was actually shunned by that community.  He was so angry and embittered that the other angry and embittered guys couldn’t stomach him so they ousted him from their community as well.  So, Elliot was NOT a pickup artist, nor was he even accepted as a puahater.  He was just a kid that decided it was better to play victim instead of trying to do the hard work and try to improve himself.  As Athene would put it:

Am I being a dick about the kid?  Yeah, kinda.  He was good looking, had money, drove a BMW at 22, and instead of trying – fucking getting out there and taking responsibility for himself and TRYING to improve himself, through hard work, dedication, and failure over and over again until he succeeded, he took the pussies way out – he decided to play victim and then take it out on the innocents around him.

This game, pickup, can be hard.  It’s certainly not for everyone.  Not everyone can stomach going out and getting rejected over and over until your skillset improves, EVEN once your skillset improves guys will see days where they go out and not one approach sticks. Sure you may even get to the point where, like me, rejections from women mostly are composed of smiles, “you made my day’s but I’m dating someone.”, witty and fun conversations where the girl says she can’t because of A,B or C but still walks away with a big smile on her face, but even that can be a little frustrating sometimes – however that’s when he have to remind ourselves to not be attached to the outcome.  Flirting is for fun!  Pickup is not about the End Game, there is no End Game – there is simply Enjoying the Process.

However, to just not even TRY.  That is the worst sin of all in my book.  I have, up until this point in my life, had a pretty fucking hard time, not just with pickup, but with sleep problems leading to emotional problems, leading to this or that problem.  But it is my will to drive myself to succeed that makes life worth living.  It is my drive to try and fail and try and fail again, that ultimately leads me to having success.  I have had many, many beautiful women in my life – some on the outside and some on the inside.  So despite any amount of pain I have had I have also had plenty of amazing experiences, especially with women, peppered in there.  But I had to TRY!  I had to get off my ass and TRY.  Some days, when sleep is especially bad, I feel like giving up.  It has been a horrible feeling.  It is shit I would never wish on my worst enemy.

But I drive on.  The army used to say, “Suck it up and Drive on!”  That’s what, in my opinion, Elliot Roger needed to learn but didn’t.  He needed to learn to suck it up and drive on.  It’s funny too, because when I was his age and particularly fucked up in my head, I decided, “I’m going to join the army!”

Why?  Because I figured bootcamp and being busy 24/7 would be good for my mind.  I figured exercise, and doing all these drills and training that would keep my mind and body busy would be better than just stewing and letting my mind run away with me.  And it WORKED!

So I cannot abide by the concept of some douchebag committing mass murder just because he was too afraid, too lazy to actually fucking take responsibility for himself and TRY!  Could we have stopped him from his path of stupidness? No, because he was uninterested in saving himself and trying to improve his life.  To him it was easier to just be a victim and create REAL victims in his wake.

So fuck you Elliot Roger.  I promise I speak for a majority of the Pickup/Dating/Seduction community when I say, no – we do NOT approve of people like Elliot Roger in any way, shape or form.  We are not even nearly associated to people like him.  And as for you angry women trolling your men’s hate blogs and groups on the internet, wanting, NEEDING me and others like me to fail, well, honestly, you’re not even worth a “fuck you.”  You’re stuck living your life with YOU.


This was a post on the Super Secret Forum I talk about from time to time by a guy who’s handle there goes by the name of BOOM!  Boom! is a great guy, and he took a mini bootcamp with me for 2 days for daygame which so I know first hand he is a great guy.  This post of his really hit home for me.  So, I am posting it here in the Sidecar section.  Enjoi:

I saw this posted on my newsfeed the other day by one of my friends who commonly posts articles about social justice-related topics.

The Pick-Up Artist Community’s Predictable, Horrible Response to a Mass Murder

Article is written by a girl, which makes it even less likely to be an objective viewpoint on pickup.

A lot of these articles seem to be coming from the baseline of pickup being misogynistic. It’s an easy thing to believe if you don’t really know much about pickup and still just see the whole thing as negs and peacocking. This article didn’t pin the guy as primarily negatively influenced by pickup, but the community’s response to the event was criticized. Hah.

I remember one time, I was out with a friend after I started pickup. We were on the topic of one-night stands. He started talking about a girl we both know who is a little bit more carefree than most and “sleeps around”. He then categorized this girl, as well as any girl who would have sex with a guy the night she meets him, as a “slut”. This made me angry. I stopped him and said, “don’t you ever use that fucking word to describe any girl again. The word slut implies too much judgment, and women should be free to do what they want without being judged, as long as it’s not hurting anyone else. Is her having sex with someone random every weekend hurting you? No. So why the judgment?”

I feel like judgment of that kind has to come from some sort of jealousy. Wait, she’s having sex whenever she wants, which I can’t do, is there something wrong with me? No, the problem is with her, that SLUT! But, pickup teaches you to accept the freedom of choice that women have. If anything, that makes the community less misogynistic. Buuuut wait, dating multiple women is wrong! Why can’t we just acknowledge that dating is a skill set that can ultimately be practiced and improved? Do non-pickup people think that perfect dates just naturally happen? Wouldn’t the natural way to prime yourself for a potential wife be to get as good as you can at this shit before you meet her? How else do you get good but practice? I have friends who tell me that their style is different from mine, they prefer not to date multiple women, wait around for the right one, etc. and while I nod and accept their viewpoint, I look at the scarcity in their dating life and know for a fact that they would love to date around but are simply too scared to take action.

To connect to the topic at hand, this brings an interesting idea to mind: pickup is universally hated or misunderstood by pretty much everyone. I see liberal articles slamming pickup as being misogynistic. I see conservatives shaming pickup because it’s immoral and devalues sex. The community has no friends.

However, if you frame it differently…

People have pointed out that I’ve changed, that I’m funnier, more confident, happier, etc. than I used to be. Minor inconveniences don’t ruin my day like they seem to for a lot of people. I can go home after a night of brutal rejection with a big smile on my face and still feel great. The other day this girl referred to me and Ronnie as “3s” and I did not even feel a single pang of hurt, I actually found it rather funny.

Yesterday me and Jawsome approached these girls at about 6 AM in an after-hours diner with the apocalypse opener. Didn’t work, but we stayed in set for a while and had an interesting discussion. I asked the girl I was talking to that (a) if I was still living in Chicago, and (b) I approached her with a simple “hello” or something similar and asked her to go out for coffee or drinks, what she would say. She said that yes, she would go on a date with me. This was, however, a few minutes after she said I was probably a misogynist. I think on a surface level she thought that a guy who would approach a girl in a diner at 6 AM and ask her to go home with him was probably someone who hated women, but as we talked she relented on that stance. I.e. the image of a pickup artist is someone who sees women as objects, but once you meet them you (hopefully) realize that that’s not the case.

What the fuck was the point of my post? I don’t know, I just had a lot of thoughts that bubbled to the surface when I heard about this incident and felt the need to spit them out. Clearly a very tragic event and I do cringe at commercial organizations trying to capitalize on it (sign up for our bootcamp so you don’t end up like this guy!), but also reveals how sadly misunderstood the community is.

Daft Punk Essential Mix – One of the Best DJ Mixes ever

(TL;DR Version – Just scroll to the bottom and click PLAY on the Soundcloud link) 😉

I’m sure many of you watched the Grammy’s last night like I didn’t.  Until I woke up this morning and checked my twitter feed I had no idea that Daft Punk was one of the performers.

Now when it comes to Daft Punk, there are 3 categories of people.

1.  The people who know them from the Old School since they were tearing up the decks back in the day

2.  The people who (like the Grammys) are the new school guys who want to be cool and like Daft Punk.

3.  The haters who are like, “Fuck Daft Punk!  They’re not EDM.  They’re shit!”  Probably most of whom were in diapers when Daft Punk was tearing up the Decks back in the day.

I got 2 things for you but if I had to choose I would say (well I would say do both, buh’hut if you HAD to choose only one I would say)  pick the SECOND choice from below.

So for those of you, like me, who missed it, here is the Video of Daft Punk on Youtube with Stevie Wonder and that other guy at the Grammy’s 2014  singing “Get Lucky”

My comment to this video was:

Ha fun to see all the Rich Folk from the old school of music, dancing awkwardly to a little of the new school.

Somehow it’s like bringing peanutbutter and chocolate together when you put Stevie Wonder, who I was singing asking with when I was 5 with Daft Punk who I jam along with to get my EDM fix.

…which is funny because it’s almost like Magic that the #3’s of my list are already starting to pour in with their comments:

Tom Simeone

9:10 AM

don’t call this EDM! – its an embarrassment when people call music EDM..

Liam Sweeney

9:29 AM
This is not EDM you twat.

Here’s why I think this is funny, because both of their pictures look like I could place their age is their early to mid 20’s. These are the kids who have no idea how hard a DJ duo have worked to make it to where they are now.  Probably their parents partied and had sex after a night of romping about at a club where Daft Punk was being played.

Anyway, not to spend too much time of them, because I want to share the POINT of this article.  This mix was one from way back in 1997 – It’s an Essential Mix from the BBC.  They have re-released it a couple times since then but it’s always an edited version which takes away from it’s awesomeness, but thank god people still have kept the original spinning.

This is absolutely EDM.  It is a fantastic House Mix that just delivers and delivers – and at the end is my absolute favorite version of “Around the World”


The Seduction of Rainbow Dash Part 2


Continued from you clicking the previous post button… 😉

Where were we…  Oh ya.

So last time I left off – but to try and get some people learning in the Super Secret Forum, I basically challenged a couple guys with this:

I will buy a couple beers for the person who can actually finish the rest for me, as long as you are 80% accurate… 😉

I did, of course have someone answer that challenge.  His name is Matty-J.  So let me break this down.  The texts will be blue, Matty’s will be Gold and my writing will be this normal light greyish color…  This should be an interesting read.

« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 03:26 PM »

Me: She texted me 15 minutes later and told me I seemed like a nice guy.

Her: “Hmm, he SEEMS like a nice guy” – Tommy Boy

She’s still not convinced, but is open to hearing more. she’s flirting here.


Me: So the next rational step I could think of was, “Hey . She seems cool and she seems to think I;m cool so we should go adventure in the city. I could show her some cool shit. I could take her to Wicker Park and maybe get her into some place to watch some punk bands or whatever and she could relate and go “Cool! I didn’t even know this part of the city was here!” And we could do the normal shit 2 cool people do together and have this fun.

think that it’s important that you choose a non-specific “safe” location and mentioned that YOU could get her into somewhere implying that she will be taken care of.  

and then you close with the best part which is .. bringing her to a safe place in her mind. 

who doesn’t love feeling like hey, cool I never knew this place was here!

combined with more rational logical subs.. 

Not exactly. What I was doing here was actually being REAL with her. I was salting and peppering the “real and logical” statements, because this is REALLY how I think. I’m an awesome, adventurous guy, with a lot of cool shit going on and all that, so I decided, I can be Mr Cocky Funny, or I can just tell her – “Look, this is who I am.”

Somtimes guys get stuck in Attraction and they forget to downshift and just have real moment “game” (if you want to call it that) for a bit where you show her who you are.

Her: Ah, shush. Alright alright. I need to get some research done first but I can meet you at 8. I’ll probably be at the coffee plac then anyway

sounds like a shit test…wall.. did you guys meet @ the coffee place? it would be a disaster if you ended the convo right here. not enough comfort

Not a shit test at ALL – Guys get in the mindset that everything is a shit test, or you always have to be gaming. I was just real with her so she is like, OK, I ‘ll be real back. At this point I could have actually just stopped the text and she most likely still would have been there. She made up her mind I was ok. However, I actually wanted to just play a little.

In person, when she bites what I am doing in this text is a NO NO! If a girl is ready to go to your place or make out or whatever key moment there is and you over-game, you’re OUT! You can do this in text, text can be fun. Just realize the difference between the two: Fun game in text vs Over game in person.


there you go.. step around the wall 
like the however part too.. in caps +! strikes an emotional response of hmm.. what’s he gonna say next it must be important. 

In a way, yes but It’s only for fun. It’s not meant to be a serious line but, ya, it does go with the narrative and creating that sort of silly suspense.

Me: Apparently you have friends in the FBI and they must have found out about my Nefarious Underworld Connections, and that I’m not a cool guy at all but Really I’m one of the 5 Bosses of the Notorious Chicago Drug Cartel. I am surrounded at all times by my bitches and hoes and my collection of Gangster Clients.

now you’ve done it! your not only a cool rational normal guy but you also have a great sense of humor. the point of this is to build comfort with her to show her that.

The comfort was built (at least the TEXT comfort which is NOT the same as REAL TIME comfort at all) 2 texts ago when I was being REAL with her. This is more like DESTROYING any more thoughts of me being dangerous, by being completely outlandish. It’s like if someone were to give me a red flower. Then I told someone about the flower later saying, “It was this bright, red, flower – fucking totally beautiful.”

But then further down the road said to that person, “That flower I told you about… It was this bright-red Glowing flower, that was blindingly bright. When it got dark out I actually could use it as a flashlight it was so fucking glowy. And fuck all this winter shit, that flower was so red and bright it was actually emitting heat. No seriously, I have it on my patio right now so I can go sit out there in shorts and a t-shirt and still be warm.”

That’s a lame example but I took what she gave me, bumped it up a slight notch and then made it into the realms of ridiculous movie shit. The after effect is that I’m fun.

Her: Ahahahahah, wow. Okay, now I think you are entirely too amusing to not talk to again in person

translation: okay I’ll give you a chance to see me but I still don’t feel that comfortable.. and don’t get all creepy

Wrong. Maybe it’s me, but I like to take things like this (when she says something positive about me) at face value. She actually is totally in and saying that I have taken her from uncomfortable about the idea to VERY comfortable about the idea. She’s not saying when I get there she’s going to drop and give me a blowjob, but she is saying “Yes, you seem fun. Ok! I’m totally in!

Me: HAHA! I’ll make sure to wear my big feather hat and purple fur coat.

Have some more comfort. you laugh it off like like haha I amuse you..and then roll with it..just keep stepping around the wall 


Me: See you l8r. I’ll try to keep my bitches in check

okay.. time to end it on a high note. after all, these are only texts. how did you intend to close her? did you guys previously talk about the coffee shop or something? btw off topic but I can’t help but picture you in a fkn purple pimp suit walking into some little quiet coffee shop with all the kids on their laptops being like yo’ bitch! What up! You know what time it is..wonder if she was thinking the same thing..

So she’s going to take a little more work… I made the first date short. It would do me NO GOOD to try and extract this chick our first time out. I don’t care if my game was Super Fucking Magic RossJeffries and Mystery and Hypnotica had a wonderchild, there was no way that this day2 would end up in sex.

So the plan was have a short date. Hit some checkpoints to remove her resistance and instill in her that I’m a safe guy AND get the sexual ball rolling. One without the other would be useless. So I took her to a couple different places in my car and ended up cutting the date short with a timebridge about a couple days from then, i.e. tomorrow night. Also, along the way I made definite escalation. We were talking about fucking and sex and there was this point towards the end of the night where we were in my car, driving her to her neighborhood, where she was talking about the ONLY 1 night stand she ever had.

I piggybacked off the story about the guys she had a 1 night stand with and said, “Sound almost like me. I kinda the same way, but it would be more like plenty of orgasms and no one ever had to know.”

She said, “What kind of orgasms?”

I said, “Plenty.” Then I start my routine about orgasms and why I like giving them. She says, “Nice. I haven’t had an orgasm from someone else in 4 years.” I was like, “You haven’t had one in 4 years?”

She said, “I mean, I can give them to myself but haven’t from other people.”

I looked over at her for about 5 seconds as if observing her and then simply said, “10 minutes.” I could tell she liked that idea. Next date we escalate…

Her: Lol. Don’t forget the cain!

dont’ forget about me!

Now she’s just playing along. It’s a good sign.

Me: Oh you mean my cain with the big crystal and gold rose at the top of it? . Ya. I’ll make sure I have it with me. That how I get RESPECT !

Her: Oh – Kay. . . Lol. Where are me meeting again?

what happens if you do all this and she replies something of the nature.. Lol

do you have to text her back for a place and time? or was that an understanding you guys had to meet up @ the coffee shop?

very cool how you took an objection of her’s reframed it to make you look interesting 

Ya, from here it’s just – Ok blah blah blah we’re meeting at this place and time blah blah blah. Nothing special. Maybe there were one or 2 more jokes about the drug dealer/pimp stuff but I just wanted to get to logistics and not risk overgaming. Then we meet.

We’ll see what happens tomorrow. You only get 1 beer but you have to buy me one too. You sill have much to learn, grasshopper….

Text is hard shit though. Imagine sucking at text game for YEARS since the inception OF text. Ya, for like 5 LONG YEARS I was fucking HORRIBLE at text game. Sometimes I could make some cool shit happen but it was more luck – what do they call it, conscious competence, but only to a point because it wasn’t even competence until recently. Truth be told I might still be in the Conscious Competence phase, but my text game is phenomenal so it’s more like Conscious Phenomenality (which I think is a word I just made up).

To be continued in part 3