Pickup Artists are Creepy Wanna Be Rapists Who Hate Women – The Double Standard

Pickup Artists are widely considered people who use tactics and techniques to try and “manipulate” members of the opposite sex into bed.  Predatory, manipulative, rape culture, creepy…

Where else have we seen that before?

Popular Women’s Magazines perhaps?

Let’s completely overlook the ways women can look their sexiest, to attract men.  Forget all the fashion techniques, makeup, hair, pushup bras, bling etc.  Just ask a girl, they do all that for THEMSELVES..  Yeah, right…

But let’s look at some of these Mainstream Articles in these Popular women’s magazines.

Article Titles like:

Get Men to do your bidding without being a Nag

Get in his head and in his bed!

Christina Hendricks:  How she chased her man and got him!

How to disappear without a trace.

The Sex position that will Put a Ring on your Finger.

Football and poker will improve your relationship.  Find out how!

And a whole host of ways to manipulate men through sex.

It took me literally 3 minutes to pull of 3 random women’s magazine covers without even skimming for what the content of the covers would be.  Let me guess…  Women don’t read these magazines.  That’s how these magazines stay in business, and have stayed in business for so long.  That’s why advertisers spend a fortune advertising their products in these magazines. It’s because women don’t buy or read them…  😉

Am I complaining?  Am I saying there’s something wrong with all of this?  NOPE!  As a matter of fact, I am very far from the hypocritical crowd out there spouting out how men learning tactics and techniques or even just improving their lives inside and out is somehow creepy, misogynistic, women hating, rape culture.  If that were the case than women have been rapey, men hating, creepsters since before I was born.

No.  Men and women trying to become more attractive to the opposite sex is AWESOME!  It is NORMAL.  Why not?  But this double standard garbage has to stop.  Women and Men are playing the same game, and the fact is, the WOMEN have been making the rules for a long time.  In essence it is a woman’s game.  It is a beautiful game to play.  It’s just too bad some angry, jaded people, both men and women, are trying to project their own ignorance, and corrupted thinking on it.

Flirting is a dance.  It is very much so, in my opinion, an elegant, beautiful dance.  So if men and women want to learn some moves to become better dancers, Fantastic!!  But this double standard that what is great for women to do is evil for men to do just needs to be put to rest.


OHH!!  Looks like I made a booboo, to the excitement and delight of one particular mangina and his blog of estrogen filled man-hating feminist followers.

A couple of the covers above, are from a parody article.  I guess just taking the first 3 covers at random and posting them in 3 minutes has it’s setbacks.  Silly me.

However, since responding beyond my only comment I left on his blog,

“If you came out of your mom’s basement, and unplugged from your attempt to win the favor of women by self-loathing you could go to any supermarket and look at any cover of any of these magazines and see how ridiculously wrong you are.

Cheers! :)”

…which is still awaiting moderation, I don’t think that this warrants the attention of another blog post.

But what I will do is take another 5 minutes of my life to give another blogger more to obsess over me about by taking hours of his day to look into every little detail of what I am about to post.  Funny how a creepy, stalkerish guy is so quick to recognize (project) his traits in others while spending hours trying to dissect my article.  Projection much?

Oh, and click this for the mangina post.

On a similar note.  Check out this article about other websites similar to the Mangina site above:

I am the Patriarchy – Mangina Sites

One last word.  Of COURSE the mangina’s article completely misses the point of this one.

Again, I think it is FABULOUS that men and women are trying to become more attractive to one another.  Men and women are not separate like the mangina site would have you believe.

In life there are a couple different schools of thought, if you will.

There are people who are separate.  Apart.

I’m old, you’re young.

I’m straight, you’re gay.

I’m Atheist, you’re religious.

He’s black, I’m white.

She’s a woman, I’m a man.

And on and on and on.

Separate – Apart.  That’s what mangina and his poor collection of readers live their lives like every day.

Then there are other people who like to think we are all in this together.  In the Taoist philosophy we all compliment one another.  Yin and Yang.  Darkness brings light.  High allows there to be low.  Valley and Mountain compliment each other as do the Seasons.

Men and women make wonderful dance partners so to speak.  We are all on THE SAME TEAM.  The human race.  There is no jaded battle between men and women other than from those who have completely lost their way.

Flirting, sexuality, seduction.  It’s a dance.  A beautiful, wonderful dance that life has gifted us the opportunity to participate in.  There is no Me vs You.  There is not US and THEM.  We are all in this together.

From the “Other” Side – Could Pickup Arts Have Stopped Elliot Roger From His Rampage?

So the Internet buzz right now, related the the PUA community, is about that guy Elliot Roger.  A couple of places, mostly jaded women’s rights (or more like Men’s Hate) blogs are trying to connect the dots, saying Elliot Roger, who was a member of a website called puahate.com, is also a PUA by default, so to speak.

So, I thought it was interesting some of the takes that has fueled the ever more man hating rage some of these women and men apologists seem to have.  Basically this is from skimming the comments section over at another blog:

Pickup artists argue that “Game” is the solution to Elliot Rodger-style rampages. Here’s why they’re wrong.

The blog is run by a self-loathing male, I think, who probably feels like the “White Knight” where if he talks about how men suck that women will flock to him and laud him as a hero and perhaps he can get the attention from them he has always lacked in the real world. It seems to work.  Jaded femmes by the Dozens flock to his blog like a dive bar filled with angry feminists.  I made one comment after a long day, and it stirred up the hornets nest, however, the next day when I tried to comment again, using many of the comments of those replying to mine, to point out the hypocracy of their thinking – well, as I figured, that post never made it through the magical “your comment is awaiting moderation” flag that seemed to pop up for me, while the she-girl man haters club got to post away freely.

Basically the attitude of the majority over there seems to be a “damned if you do and damned if you don’t” stance from the she-haters.  In other words, men, at least the ones that these females don’t automatically find attractive upon first glance and have a shot with, have no business talking to women.  Women just don’t need to be bothered by these “Morlocks” if you will.  They want to go on their happy lives, and not have to deal with undesirables trying to flirt with them.  It works like this.  If you are the 1% of men in the world that are attractive to these women, you are ok, just as long as they can also have their desires for you reciprocated.

However for the rest of men, they fall into a few different Blanket Categories:

1.  The Creeper – Men whom these women do not approve of, or cannot have their way with if the women find them attractive, are considered creepy.  If one tries to hit on one of these women, and things don’t work out, these men are creepy, they are harassing the women,they are borderline molesting them.  How dare these less than sexy men have desires for these women and try to make them known!!  One also falls into this category if he is unskilled in the dating world.  If he is not, by default, great with women off the bat, then he has no business trying to talk to them since he is a creepy misogynist if he does.

2.  The Wanna Be Rapist – Men who go about trying to improve their dating lives by studying or trying ANYTHING that can loosely be related to Pickup Arts in any way shape or form are neatly pigeonholed into a couple of categories.  A.  They hate women.  B.  They want to Rape Women.  So, anyone who is not automatically approved of from the she-hateists that tries to step up the ladder is also evil, misogynistic, and are a threat to women.  No man should ever try to become better at dating!!  They should just be happy with being a Creeper and NEVER talk to women!

3.  The Possible Mass Murderer – Well as you can see, since men are automatically creepy if women don’t approve of them, and they are serial rapists and they hate women if they try to improve themselves, then there is a very real possibility as we just witnessed that these troglodytes of the male species (99%) are very likely to go off on a killing spree.  This makes them even more of a threat – because God forbid they can’t Rape women, because then they will just turn around and start killing people.

Moral of the story?  Well Saturday Night Live summed it up very nicely in this mock advertisement about sexual harassment they did a few years back:


Be Handsome

Be Attractive

Don’t Be Unattractive

This is what that WHOLE comments section in that blog post boils down to.  Hypocrisy at it’s finest.  Women who only want to have to be hit on by men who they find desirable.  All the flag waving, rah-rahing, men bashing is shallow as can be.  It’s all about them wanting to have their cake and eat it to.

Then there’s Spin bullshit like this by some media sites where they try to say that PUAHATE is actually a pickup artist site in disguise:

Women-hating ‘Pick-Up-Artist’ groups laud the ‘virgin killer’ for his vile and murderous comments online

But let’s get real for a moment.  Was Elliot Roger a pick up artist?  Do pickup artists support him?

Let’s put it like this.  He was a “member” of puahate.com.  Pickup artists generally know that those who end up on puahate are those who failed at pickup.  Most of them probably tried and failed, so embittered and angry, they ended up there.  That is what the majority of the site’s posters were made up of.  There were a few guys on there claiming to have success with women, but as one guy so eloquently put it in another discussion about this we are having, “they would post their own method that was rehashed from common sense or other pick up method.  For example: they said I just approach until I find a girl who is receptive and then tease her and have a conversation with her.  And by the way fuck mystery method!”

However, as a whole puahate is regarded by pickup artists as the angry, embittered failure club.  Even more so, Elliot Roger was actually shunned by that community.  He was so angry and embittered that the other angry and embittered guys couldn’t stomach him so they ousted him from their community as well.  So, Elliot was NOT a pickup artist, nor was he even accepted as a puahater.  He was just a kid that decided it was better to play victim instead of trying to do the hard work and try to improve himself.  As Athene would put it:

Am I being a dick about the kid?  Yeah, kinda.  He was good looking, had money, drove a BMW at 22, and instead of trying – fucking getting out there and taking responsibility for himself and TRYING to improve himself, through hard work, dedication, and failure over and over again until he succeeded, he took the pussies way out – he decided to play victim and then take it out on the innocents around him.

This game, pickup, can be hard.  It’s certainly not for everyone.  Not everyone can stomach going out and getting rejected over and over until your skillset improves, EVEN once your skillset improves guys will see days where they go out and not one approach sticks. Sure you may even get to the point where, like me, rejections from women mostly are composed of smiles, “you made my day’s but I’m dating someone.”, witty and fun conversations where the girl says she can’t because of A,B or C but still walks away with a big smile on her face, but even that can be a little frustrating sometimes – however that’s when he have to remind ourselves to not be attached to the outcome.  Flirting is for fun!  Pickup is not about the End Game, there is no End Game – there is simply Enjoying the Process.

However, to just not even TRY.  That is the worst sin of all in my book.  I have, up until this point in my life, had a pretty fucking hard time, not just with pickup, but with sleep problems leading to emotional problems, leading to this or that problem.  But it is my will to drive myself to succeed that makes life worth living.  It is my drive to try and fail and try and fail again, that ultimately leads me to having success.  I have had many, many beautiful women in my life – some on the outside and some on the inside.  So despite any amount of pain I have had I have also had plenty of amazing experiences, especially with women, peppered in there.  But I had to TRY!  I had to get off my ass and TRY.  Some days, when sleep is especially bad, I feel like giving up.  It has been a horrible feeling.  It is shit I would never wish on my worst enemy.

But I drive on.  The army used to say, “Suck it up and Drive on!”  That’s what, in my opinion, Elliot Roger needed to learn but didn’t.  He needed to learn to suck it up and drive on.  It’s funny too, because when I was his age and particularly fucked up in my head, I decided, “I’m going to join the army!”

Why?  Because I figured bootcamp and being busy 24/7 would be good for my mind.  I figured exercise, and doing all these drills and training that would keep my mind and body busy would be better than just stewing and letting my mind run away with me.  And it WORKED!

So I cannot abide by the concept of some douchebag committing mass murder just because he was too afraid, too lazy to actually fucking take responsibility for himself and TRY!  Could we have stopped him from his path of stupidness? No, because he was uninterested in saving himself and trying to improve his life.  To him it was easier to just be a victim and create REAL victims in his wake.

So fuck you Elliot Roger.  I promise I speak for a majority of the Pickup/Dating/Seduction community when I say, no – we do NOT approve of people like Elliot Roger in any way, shape or form.  We are not even nearly associated to people like him.  And as for you angry women trolling your men’s hate blogs and groups on the internet, wanting, NEEDING me and others like me to fail, well, honestly, you’re not even worth a “fuck you.”  You’re stuck living your life with YOU.


This was a post on the Super Secret Forum I talk about from time to time by a guy who’s handle there goes by the name of BOOM!  Boom! is a great guy, and he took a mini bootcamp with me for 2 days for daygame which so I know first hand he is a great guy.  This post of his really hit home for me.  So, I am posting it here in the Sidecar section.  Enjoi:

I saw this posted on my newsfeed the other day by one of my friends who commonly posts articles about social justice-related topics.

The Pick-Up Artist Community’s Predictable, Horrible Response to a Mass Murder

Article is written by a girl, which makes it even less likely to be an objective viewpoint on pickup.

A lot of these articles seem to be coming from the baseline of pickup being misogynistic. It’s an easy thing to believe if you don’t really know much about pickup and still just see the whole thing as negs and peacocking. This article didn’t pin the guy as primarily negatively influenced by pickup, but the community’s response to the event was criticized. Hah.

I remember one time, I was out with a friend after I started pickup. We were on the topic of one-night stands. He started talking about a girl we both know who is a little bit more carefree than most and “sleeps around”. He then categorized this girl, as well as any girl who would have sex with a guy the night she meets him, as a “slut”. This made me angry. I stopped him and said, “don’t you ever use that fucking word to describe any girl again. The word slut implies too much judgment, and women should be free to do what they want without being judged, as long as it’s not hurting anyone else. Is her having sex with someone random every weekend hurting you? No. So why the judgment?”

I feel like judgment of that kind has to come from some sort of jealousy. Wait, she’s having sex whenever she wants, which I can’t do, is there something wrong with me? No, the problem is with her, that SLUT! But, pickup teaches you to accept the freedom of choice that women have. If anything, that makes the community less misogynistic. Buuuut wait, dating multiple women is wrong! Why can’t we just acknowledge that dating is a skill set that can ultimately be practiced and improved? Do non-pickup people think that perfect dates just naturally happen? Wouldn’t the natural way to prime yourself for a potential wife be to get as good as you can at this shit before you meet her? How else do you get good but practice? I have friends who tell me that their style is different from mine, they prefer not to date multiple women, wait around for the right one, etc. and while I nod and accept their viewpoint, I look at the scarcity in their dating life and know for a fact that they would love to date around but are simply too scared to take action.

To connect to the topic at hand, this brings an interesting idea to mind: pickup is universally hated or misunderstood by pretty much everyone. I see liberal articles slamming pickup as being misogynistic. I see conservatives shaming pickup because it’s immoral and devalues sex. The community has no friends.

However, if you frame it differently…

People have pointed out that I’ve changed, that I’m funnier, more confident, happier, etc. than I used to be. Minor inconveniences don’t ruin my day like they seem to for a lot of people. I can go home after a night of brutal rejection with a big smile on my face and still feel great. The other day this girl referred to me and Ronnie as “3s” and I did not even feel a single pang of hurt, I actually found it rather funny.

Yesterday me and Jawsome approached these girls at about 6 AM in an after-hours diner with the apocalypse opener. Didn’t work, but we stayed in set for a while and had an interesting discussion. I asked the girl I was talking to that (a) if I was still living in Chicago, and (b) I approached her with a simple “hello” or something similar and asked her to go out for coffee or drinks, what she would say. She said that yes, she would go on a date with me. This was, however, a few minutes after she said I was probably a misogynist. I think on a surface level she thought that a guy who would approach a girl in a diner at 6 AM and ask her to go home with him was probably someone who hated women, but as we talked she relented on that stance. I.e. the image of a pickup artist is someone who sees women as objects, but once you meet them you (hopefully) realize that that’s not the case.

What the fuck was the point of my post? I don’t know, I just had a lot of thoughts that bubbled to the surface when I heard about this incident and felt the need to spit them out. Clearly a very tragic event and I do cringe at commercial organizations trying to capitalize on it (sign up for our bootcamp so you don’t end up like this guy!), but also reveals how sadly misunderstood the community is.

Religion, God and Sexuality


I’m a believer. I love God. If you do too this will make sense to you. If you are Atheist you can probably skip this as Irrelevant.

And before we get into the debate I always like to say, I’m not sure any religion has dibs on God. Just like in Pickup/Seduction  Schools of thought, no coach/system has all the answers.

And furthermore, I like to use the word God, not in a religious sense but to me it’s just so much easier than all this wishy-washy new agey shit people try to do. “It’s not God, it’s the all source of the universe, the energy that all creation is made from, the earth and Gaia as one.” or whatever the fuck.

Ok cool. and that’s the new Politically Correct, trendy way to talk about it. (Maybe not as Trendy as being Atheist is these days but that’s a different talk).

But to me using the word God is so much easier. Just like using the word Car is easier than saying, “It’s not a Car. It’s a machine that is made of metal and has an engine and uses fuel made from oil that causes the cylinders of the engine to fire off that makes the machine, that has 4 wheels by the way, go.”

That being said, I don’t care what people decide – whether they believe or not, that is their path.

However, I would like to bring up some confusion about Religion, God and Sexuality.

Religion has put a negative spin on Sexuality. Get Married, don’t cheat, don’t have sex until you’re married, don’t masturbate, don’t fuck, don’t get dirty, nasty, sticky and sweaty.


But if you read the Bible, 3 of Gods favorite people had lots of sex AND with different people.

David – King David had eight wives and at least ten concubines. 2 Samuel 5:13-15 says that David took more wives and concubines in Jerusalem, but doesn’t list how many, only names the sons born to him there.

Solomon – He had 700 wives of royal birth and 300 concubines.

Abraham – He’s another story completely. Not as many wives and concubines but he did sleep with his handmaiden to have children.

As a matter of fact, even the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is not about the concept of people being Homosexual or not, but that they had become so fucking corrupt that they would gather outside your door and demand you bring your guests out so they could fuck them.

That’s sexually depraved. That’s different than Healthy Sexuality.

Going back to the story of David – Was it his sex with multiple women that pissed God off?

Nope – God got pissed when David, who was already fucking plenty of women, probably all hot for the standards of those days, saw some dude’s Wife and wanted to fuck her too.

So David decided to send that dude off to fight and die in a war and THAT’S when God was like, “Seriously? You just fucking had some dude killed so you could fuck his wife? That’s pretty fucked up dude.”

Then God was pissed at David.

The thing wit Solomon was kind of the same. God was ONLY pissed at Solomon, not because he was fucking multiple women, but because he starting letting those women lead him astray and do dumb/bad shit.

God never got mad at people for fucking women and expressing HEALTHY sexuality, he only got pissed when people were corrupt, depraved or abusive in a way that was bad for the other person/people involved. If you were deliberately fucking up other people in the name of sex OR fucking up yourself, Then it was a problem.

That’s my belief. There are stories later I think where people say, “Ok, now God says no more whoredom. You can only have sex with one woman and she better be your wife.”

My PERSONAL belief is that most likely that was MAN=Religion pushing THEIR agenda and not necessarily God. But if it WAS God it was because man was making a trend of letting Sex corrupt them.

See the problem with Religion is this – Man uses God as a way to push their own agenda. They say, God says this and God says that… But many times it has nothing to do with God. And the problem with that is, that instead of blaming MAN – People blame God. It’s like saying Henry Ford is responsible for all the deaths of people dieing in Auto Accidents because he created the first mass produced Car.

So – I don’t think God would give us this whole LOVE of sex, make it pleasurable, make it release chemicals in our bodies that make us FEEL GOOD, in order just to play games with us and say “Don’t Do That!”

My point to all this is, If you are battling yourself in the belief of, “I like God, so I don’t know if I should have sex with Girls.” OR “I want to fuck girls, but if they love God it’s wrong.” I don’t think that’s the case at all, as LONG as you are doing it from a Genuine place of love of sexuality, value and respect for the chick and so on.

Why did God bomb Sodom and Gomorrah? Depraved as fuck. Not healthy, sex was pleasure and they didn’t care how much you had to fuck someone over or hurt them to get it.

So, be cool, have sex but do it from a place of love and respect and (at least the way I think of it) I am REALLY and Truly bringing a kickass experience into this woman’s life. I’m not fucking women to make up for my insecurities, or because I’m angry with them, or because I want to impress my friends, or fuck someone else over. I’m not breaking up some family by fucking some chick who’s married until her husband finds out and then they get a divorce. I’m not doing any of that shit. I’m fucking women because I LOVE women. They are beautiful, interesing, sexy creatures that I enjoy sharing my time with.